Ep 160: Over $100M In Revenue From E-commerce Email Marketing with Chase Dimond

Jaryd Krause:

Chase, welcome to the episode and the podcast. How are you doing?

Chase Dimond:

Doing well, thanks. How are you?

Jaryd Krause:

Really good. Thank you. I told you when we were emailing that I was excited. And when we first dropped in on the call today, I told you I was excited. I'm still very excited for this chat about email marketing. Email marketing has been very good for me. And I've gone all in on email marketing, and I just can't; it's just not enough businesses do it well enough, especially in e-commerce businesses.

Some don't do any email marketing, and then we have some that have done really well in their businesses and then got to the point where they said, Let's try some email marketing, and the email marketing has crushed it for them. So I'm looking forward to asking a bunch of questions, but why did you get started with email marketing? Tell us about that.

Chase Dimond:

Yeah, my story is a little bit strange. I'm going to make this really short, but when I was 14 years old, I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease. After being sick for about a year, I finally figured out what it was. So I took it upon myself at 14 to basically start raising money and awareness for this disease.

So that way, other people who got it wouldn't have to suffer for a whole year without actually knowing what they had. Um, so I was like taking ads out of the paper. I was emailing friends and family members about these events. So email has really been At the core of everything I've ever done. From that whole experience as a teenager in college, I was working six, seven, or eight different jobs and internships to pay my way through college.

So, you know, in every job, whether it was a sales job, a marketing job, we were using email on the acquisition side, email on the retention side, and email on the conversion side. So when I graduated college, I really looked at the things that I had done really, really well, the things that I enjoyed, and where I thought the opportunity was.

And it just happened to be an email. Every single business I've built or been a part of has either only done email or leveraged email as a large factor. So a couple of things I've done is I built an email travel series from zero to 500,000 subscribers in 10 months. So it was much like the hustle, the scheme, and the morning of Rubik for travel. We use platforms like Instagram to source, uh, contact information based on people's interests.

So for you, you mentioned that you're in Australia, right? So I might see that you're in Australia, and you might be posting some really cool travel photos. So based on the hashtag you post, the location you tag, or the accounts that you follow, If your email was on your profile and was publicly available, we would pull that and send you a personalized invitation to join our travel community.

And then the whole business was literally a weekly travel series where we broke down the coolest places to visit that were well known and off the beaten path. And then fast forward to today. In our run as an agency specifically doing email marketing for clients, we've sent billions of emails and generated hundreds of millions of dollars in email revenue for our clients. So email is such a powerful channel for people to sleep on, which doesn't really make sense to me. It's super profitable, and it's super predictable.

Jaryd Krause:

Yeah, it's when you think about it that you said predictable ability. It really is like I know what sort of return I'm going to get from sending an email. I know the open rate based on previous open rates. I know the click through rates, and then I know the conversion rates based on my email. So, I never thought about this, but I've got an email campaign coming out. some time in the year, later in the year. And I thought about what would be a good goal for that.

And I thought, What would I realistically be able to achieve through running that? And it makes sense that that can be quite accurate because of that. But I want to come back to building the email list. So is cold outreach one of your main approaches—you know, pulling emails?

from people that have a higher level of interest in what kind of email list you're wanting to build, or do you have other things that you do as well to build an email list specifically for e-commerce businesses because that's your main bread and butter and who you work with because I don't think enough people with e-commerce businesses really focus on email marketing like they should, or at least I should say because it's more like trying to quickly catch a butterfly with a butterfly net rather than building a garden and drawing that traffic to you, right?

And doing that through email marketing, putting ads out there, and trying to convert a sale, usually with a colder audience. So what are some of these cool ways that we can build an email list for our e-commerce businesses?

Chase Dimond:

Yeah, a couple thoughts, like, I think the really important point is that, where I sit right here doing email marketing for brands, we can only work with brands that have traffic and less, like, I can't go work with someone that just starts up that has no list, so emails are only as good as traffic and the leads coming through, so to your point, you have spent a lot of time actually driving that traffic and capturing those folks into emails.

Another thing to preface is the cold email stuff that I was doing. That was really kind of outside of ecommerce. newsletter business and kind of media sites that work really, really well, you know, with these travel folks that we're doing, we were sending them an editorial based email. And over time, we were trying to sell them airline tickets, hotel bookings, and maybe e-commerce products on the back end. But that sales cycle is a lot longer.

We had to really build trust, and we had to actually, you know, make it free for people to join in with e-commerce, right? Obviously, you need people to convert on something that's 30 bucks, 50 bucks, 100 bucks, $1000, whatever that might be. with e-commerce, but I don't know that cold email is necessarily as applicable. You know, with scale in the agency, outreach would be to e-commerce brands, but moving over to e-commerce, where we really sit, most of our focus is on what we call the middle to bottom of the funnel.

So if you think about the top of the funnel, things like paid traffic, SEO, influencers, affiliates, and PR, that's where we sit, right? There are things like email, SMS, messenger marking, et cetera. So where we really sit is that we're basically taking the traffic that a client provides and leveraging different types of forms. So popups, flyouts, and embedded forms should be able to capture existing traffic and convert it into email addresses, right?

There are different types of forms; as I just mentioned, there are different types of behavior. Do you show that form right away? Do you wait until someone's scrolled through a portion of the page? Do you wait until someone's leaving? And then, with all of that, there are different types of offers, and each offer lends itself to a different conversion rate.

There are three main types of offers. The first is to sign up to join our list, and that typically gets about a 1% conversion rate of people entering their email. So out of every 100 people, you get one email. It's not that exciting. Just join our email list. It's kind of lame. I don't really care enough about a brand to just do that, right? Jaryd Krause:

Yeah, yep. Yeah.

Chase Dimond:

The second one is some kind of discount, incentive, or offer. So that could be something like $5 off, 5% off, or free shipping, right? Most brands are leveraging that type of approach. And you're going to see somewhere in the ballpark, depending on how well you optimize it, maybe between five and 8% of people giving you their email. So for every 100 people who visit your website that are cold, there are five to eight people, right? Pretty decent.

The last one is this whole enter to win model. So if you sell wallets, it might be an enter to win or a weekly wallet giveaway. If you sell t-shirts, you might be entered to win our monthly t-shirt giveaway, right? And that typically means seeing eight to 12% conversion on cold traffic into email subscribers. So I'm sure everyone listening or watching immediately is like, Oh man, I have to do this giveaway thing.

And while it's worth trying, the quality might be a little bit different for someone who is entering solely for a giveaway versus someone who's entering for an offer. And the conversion window is going to be a lot longer for someone who wants to give it away. They're going to wait that one week. They're going to wait that one month to see if they win and then potentially purchase or convert from there. So kind of test the two.

You have to factor in the total number of emails collected and then overall engagement and conversion. So that's kind of where I sit. It's mainly leveraging forms. We also collect emails that check out whether people have entered their details and bought or if they just got through the first page of checkout, entering their address, their name, and their phone number. Outside of that, though, to kind of talk, you know, there really isn't a substitute for paid traffic and e-commerce, right?

Most people are leveraging Facebook and Instagram. They're unpredictable. iOS 14 and 14.5 really screwed things up. It's been really difficult. That being said, they really are still the best, if not some of the best, platforms for targeting and driving that purchase. And that's what makes email so much more important nowadays; it might even be potentially unprofitable in that first sale, like email and SMS, because you need to get that repeat purchase. The repeat purchase is where it's gravy, right?

You know, basically, acquisition gets people in, but it doesn't give you the bottom line numbers that you need. So you have to run paid traffic. Obviously, there's a lot of attention on TikTok right now. Is that going to work? Is it not going to work? What are people seeing? And the results are so mixed. So that's kind of what I got for you on that.

Jaryd Krause:

That's awesome. Yeah, I think there are so many things I'd like to break down that you've just mentioned, but could you imagine owning an e-commerce business and getting kicked off Facebook because your account got shut down for some reason and you don't have an email list? Like, how are you going to sell to people?

If you can, then you've got to go away and create another whole marketing funnel or campaigns through Google or another platform, which costs a lot of time and money to set up, and you don't have anything as a contingency plan with this security. Like this, the word security really lends itself well to what an email list is, right? It's so vital for a business that people in e-commerce should, please, think about this.

Chase Dimond:

Yeah, you and I know this, but people would be surprised that every single day, there are probably dozens, if not hundreds, of businesses that are getting shut down. Honestly, probably even thousands—I don't know the exact number, so don't quote me—but there are easily hundreds, if not maybe even thousands, of people that are getting shut down on a daily, if not weekly, basis, right?

Maybe they put up the wrong ad, right? Maybe they're a business that's in an industry that's not necessarily quote-unquote compliant like cannabis, CBD, or whatever. Or maybe, you know, you're getting so many people. you're at spam or the quality score goes down. There are so many people who are just getting shut down all the time.

Again, having an email list is not going to get you all the same revenue that you were having before, but it's going to allow you to stay in business and really drive consistent, profitable revenue while you go and figure out that top of the funnel. Otherwise, if you're only relying on top of the funnel and you don't drive sales, you could be out of business if you don't have other channels to kick in.

Jaryd Krause:

Yeah, I felt this personally at two different times on Facebook. At the end of 2018, my sole traffic and income were coming through Facebook ads, leads, and everything else. I got shut down and almost lost my business because of it. I had to change a lot—change my strategy, get my Facebook account working again, all that sort of stuff. And then about a year ago, Yeah, almost a year ago today when this recording was made, my ad account got shut down again.

This time, it was a completely different story. My business was not affected much; I would say maybe five to seven percent to eight percent were affected by not being able to run Facebook ads. But because I built an email list, There was no real Oh my god. You know, I've lost my income and my business, and I just don't think enough people talk about the risk that's involved in not having an email list. And I want to come back to these two. I want to come back to the two different types.

You mentioned four different ways you can build an email list for an e-commerce business. But I'm so glad that you mentioned the prize or the competition because of the intent to test both of those, right? To test an offer of competition because the intent of somebody who's going to apply or join a list just to win something may actually be very low.

They just want to win the thing and then get off the list so you can have a quick turn and burn rate. Right. So what would your suggestion be? Would you say that if you're going to run a competition, make sure the product is very relevant to the business that you're in? Or do you have any other kinds you can do?

Chase Dimond:

Yeah, that's 100% accurate. It's like, let's say, I talked about a wallet or a pair of companies, and I see so many wallets or pairs of companies giving away an iPhone or an iPad. Let's say, Why are you doing that? How does that have any relevance to your business?

Jaryd Krause:

Yeah.

Chase Dimond:

Now you're going to have hundreds or thousands of people on your list who want the iPhone. And when something like that has a high prize, you also find a lot of people trying to game the system, right? They're going to be using six of their emails, and they're going to have seven of their friends and 10 of their family members on that list.

Everyone who can be on that list. So not only do you end up with people who don't necessarily need or want it, but you also end up with a lot of new people who have no idea who you are. I'll mark you as spam. The emails might bounce. This person's just really incentivized to win. So I think it's really important that you, to your point, have alignment between what in the world you sell and what you're giving away. You sell wallets. If you sell shirts, give them away.

If you sell beauty products, give away makeup or hair care products. That is actually something you sell. Then again, you're still going to have people on your list that may not really care; they're just going to see if they win free stuff, and that's okay, but you're going to have a lot fewer people that just try to game the system and ultimately screw up your deliverability and make you pay more to your email provider because you have all these people on your list now. So having the alignment is probably the most obvious one. So you're going to have a lot fewer people on your list.

Jaryd Krause:

This is funny. It's so funny. There are people that will have a massive email list just to have a massive email list, and the level of engagement is so low on that email list, but they can go away and go, Look, I've got an email list of this size, but they don't, they don't take it away, they don't remove it, and they're paying for it in hosting on their email provider.

But also, from what I've learned in email marketing, the more people that, you know, open an email or click on emails, the less deliverability of your emails to the rest of your list that are engaged decreases as well, right? So there are so many effects of having a big email list with non-valuable subscribers, really, right?

Chase Dimond:

Yeah, list size is such a weird thing where people flex about having a million people on your list. And then I actually have a real scenario where an eight figure brand came to us. I was like, Hey, you know, one of the things I ask on the onboarding before we're helping to call is what size your list is to, like, a million people.

And I'm like, Okay, well, how much revenue are you driving? They're like, Oh, we're driving like 5%. I was like, You have a million people left on the list, but you're only making 5% of your revenue from email. And I'm like, Why is that? Like, do you guys not send emails? No, we send emails all the time. You get into the account. rates, and 4% open rates.

So it's like, sure, you have a million people on your list, but 2% of that is what? 20,000 people are opening it. You'd be better off only having, let's say, 100,000 people on your list. And at that point, if 20,000 people open, which is a 20% open rate, you're going to ultimately be able to expand that over time because you're going to be hitting the inbox or the promotions of the spam. Granted, they're also on an email platform, and they're paying, I think, an extra $4,000 a month because of all the people that they had that just never opened.

And I'm talking about opening in the last six, 12, or 18 months, or having never opened since they started the business like five years ago, right? So these guys were flexing and talking about how they had a million person list doing eight figures, but email was such a small contributor, their deliverability was so bad, their domain was pretty much trashed, and they were paying $4,000 extra a month, that's an extra $50,000 a year.

They had reinvested that back at the time we started working with them, and they were getting one, two, three, or four X ROAS. A couple years ago, dude, they could have been printing more money because, like, you could turn $50,000 into $100,000. If you turn 100,000, right? Like it just really multiplied. So don't leave money on the table by just paying more to your platform to have people that are not going to add any value. They're actually going to hurt you way more than they're going to help you.

Jaryd Krause:

Yeah, it's really good. I like the fact that they're sending out these emails with two to four percent open rates. What I hear is that they're basically burning bridges with their contacts and just ruining what relationship they could build. And it's making them worse off than anything else, like you mentioned. With an email list, what I've learned is that building a relationship is absolutely critical, and maintaining that relationship is absolutely critical.

So because when you have a relationship, the better the relationship is that you have with anybody, Not just in an email list for anybody, the more trust you have with them, Which means a higher chance of purchasing in the future. So what are some of the things that we can do to build and maintain a relationship with our list?

Chase Dimond:

Yeah, it's a good question. And I was kind of thinking, as you're asking about this use case, that by the time people are listening to this, this event is going to be over. But I'd love to talk about this event that I'm hosting at the time when, you know, it's going to be over, but I'm going to talk about, like, what we did and how we leveraged our list.

So I think when you think about an email list, some of the most important people on your list are, quote unquote, VIPs, right? And everyone has a different definition of a VIP. But at some point or another, some function has spent X dollars over the last wide number of days, weeks, or months, right? So one example might be someone who spent $100 at your store in the last 30 days.

And this is obviously going to depend on your AOV, which stands for your average order value. On average, when people come, are they spending $25, $50, or $7,500? More or less. What does that look like? And then what is the typical lifetime value, and what's the repeat purchase? Right? So if it's $50 AOV and the lifetime value is $100, that means that typically people are buying from your store twice, you know, in aggregate.

So if you say, Okay, $50 is the AOV, $100 is the LTV, and people are buying twice, Then maybe my VIPs are folks that have bought three or more times from me in the last six months. Or maybe it's people who have spent a hundred and twenty five or a hundred fifty dollars for me in the last two or three months, right? So you basically have to take your numbers and a kind of watermark, and then the 10 or 20 percent of people that are over that benchmark, or quote-unquote your VIPs, right?

And for VIPs, what do they care about and what do they want? They want early access, right? product, collection, or service, they want to know about it first. Do they want discounts? Sure, I'm sure they want discounts, but they're not necessarily on your SMS list, in a Facebook group for VIPs, or in a Slack group, right? They want exclusive content.

They want access to the founders or the team to be able to ask questions. There's a way to be able to tag these people and give them priority support. That's great too, right? So there are all these different criteria and these things that are outside discounts that you can do for these VIPs. really is going to nurture them to come back time and again and buy from you. And then, coming back to Q4 of this past year, we introduced this concept of, Great, we have VIPs by dollar spent.

That's obvious. I just talked about that. We also have these VIP folks who are not necessarily big spenders, but they're heavy engagers. They open every email and click on every email. Anytime we ask for a reply, they reply. They're the ones forwarding the emails to their friends. If you post a poll, they're going to respond to that poll. So are these people? or kind of like the sliver of folks that if the AOV is 50 and the LTV is 100, maybe they've only bought once at the $50, but they're engaged, they're active, and they're excited, right?

How do we treat these people like VIPs based on engagement to move them into that bucket of VIPs based on dollar spend? And that was really successful. It was just done through those things, like writing them handwritten notes, giving them the first look, calling it out, and giving them priority support. So those are kind of some of the things and ways we drive engagement, like, spending a lot of money one way.

And the people that have spent a lot of time just interacting with us, we treat them really well too. Obviously, we treat the people in the middle well. They're just getting, I wouldn't say, cookie cutter stuff, but they're getting a little bit of neither here nor there stuff, right? They're getting enough stuff to be engaged, exciting, interesting, and whatnot.

But we're really emphasizing, it's like the 80/20 rule, right? 80% of our sales are going to come from 20% of the people who are really heavily engaged. You might have something to say, but I want to, after you say something, or if you have something to say. going to like this next use case, kind of this tangible example of something I was building.

Jaryd Krause:

Yeah, cool. Let's go into the next use case. But yeah, the 80 and 20 are so important. I think people go into business in so many different ways; it doesn't just need to be within email marketing. So many people say to me, I need to get these people to this VIP level, and they focus on that.

But you may be focusing on people who find it really, really hard to move to the next level because they're not as motivated. They're not as inspired. And then I really care about the brand, just as other people on the high engagement list or the VIP list do. So why not make them feel even more special?

Chase Dimond:

Yes.

Jaryd Krause:

And that's what I hear is like, what you're doing is making those people who are showing interest feel even more special with these handwritten notes, VIP access, and exclusivity type things.

Chase Dimond:

Yes.

Jaryd Krause:

And they're the people who are going to increase your CLTV, right? basically.

Chase Dimond:

Exactly. And I want to tie that into a real example. And I'm not selling anything by the time you listen to this; the event's going to be over, so it's not going to matter. But, um, about a week ago, I launched this virtual event, and I want to kind of talk about how we created this buying frenzy for lack of better work. Um, and then I think in the first four hours we sold like 400 plus tickets, right? So we had about 4,800 people visit the website, and we had sold over 400 tickets and whatnot. Um, and like four hours or so. something.

So essentially, what we did was put on social media, put on the email list, put on the text list, all of our assets that, hey, in 24 hours at 1pm PST tomorrow, we have something really special dropping, right? So we were kind of a little bit ambiguous, a little bit vague, but kind of starting to hype, right? I think hyping something is so important. In e-commerce, right? If you have a product launch coming up, you don't want to just send an email saying, We're live, we're out.

You want to be able to introduce it and kind of tease it ahead of time, right? Before you actually go live. But with us, we did this for this virtual event that we have started hyping, letting people know something is coming. And then, on top of that, we did something really, really interesting as we made each of the tickets time sensitive and price sensitive. And what I mean by that is that we did it in allotments of 50. So for every 50 tickets bought, the price increased by $5.

So we started this virtual thing at $5, right? So the very first 50 people got to buy all their tickets individually for $5. And then the next 50 people paid $10, right? Something's launching; something's coming. And now there's heavy incentivization for people to buy right away, because if you're going to ultimately buy, you might as well buy at $5 right now; it's at $40. Right.

So everyone buying now is getting access to the same thing these people who paid $5 did; they're just paying 8x. And people kind of made a joke, saying, Hey, can I sell my ticket now? Like I'm going to be profiting 8x. Right. So what we essentially did was, right, we did the hype. And then what we did was basically launch 30 minutes early for our VIPs. So we told everyone at 1PM. PST.

This is going to go live 30 minutes before we send an email out to our VIPs, basically saying, Hey, you probably saw our email; you probably saw our post that this is going live at 1PM PST. And that's true. But for you, this starts now; you know, here's 30 minutes for you to get in on this. And here's why it's important, because we're selling tickets that increase $5 for every 50, you're going to be basically the first group of people that can buy this at five or 10, maybe $15 depending on how many you guys buy.

So we gave the heads up 30 minutes early to our VIPs. pricing because there's no one else they're competing with. And we let them know, by the way, that this is going out to Chase's list, which has almost 30,000 people. This is going out to Rob's list, which has 10,000 people. This is going out to our societies, which have 10’s of thousands of people. But right now, this VIP thing is only going out to 1,000 people.

Your odds are looking really, really good. And if you look at where the sales came from, of the 400 sales in the first four hours, like 75 or 80% came from the VIPs because we gave them the heads up. They were primed. They were hyped. We launched. So that was kind of the example in the use case of leveraging psychology and hype, putting something out there across all channels of people new, and then really giving VIPs that first access.

I'm not really an SMS expert. But I think what I like about SMS is the fact that, like, you could literally send a message out and within minutes, almost everyone that's received it has actually opened it, right? So leveraging SMS is super important, or kind of launching an email a little bit early for something like this is super important. anything else that I missed. So yeah, the things here were kind of to summarize, like building hype and attentive participation, leveraging VIPs, having on page scarcity and viral loops, kind of referral loops.

The other thing that we did was, once people bought, we incentivized them to share by giving them the option to win mugs and t-shirts and this was another. So at 12: 30, before people even knew they could buy, we were getting sales, and people were sharing on Twitter, tagging us, saying, I just bought my ticket. It's here; you can buy yours too. So people are now like, Well, this thing didn't go live until one.

What is happening? Right? So it's kind of like this really interesting psychological experiment that did really, really well. And at this point right now, I think we've sold like 500 tickets. So 90% of the sales came in the first four hours, right? Because of that urgency. So sorry, that was kind of like the interesting use case that's been top of mind for me all week.

Jaryd Krause:

Yeah, that's really good. I like the exclusivity, and just like I said, making people feel special and giving them warnings and hyping and all those things that you mentioned is like, when I look back at any successful email marketing campaigns I have, it's because of that.

It's because of those things. And I don't like to use the word hype that most people use around it. But if you have something that's good, why not be excited about it and share that with your audience?

Chase Dimond:

Yeah.

Jaryd Krause:

Anyway, not to hype something up to be more than it actually is, That's what I would have to say.

Chase Dimond:

Yeah. And to expand on that. So, the word hype, yeah, I cannot say that it's basically lying or kind of overstating the value or whatever it's going to be, but really just giving a heads up, right? So almost like an early bird, it kind of looks like an early access type thing, right? So if you do a product launch, you want to send three emails.

You want to do this pre-email kind of giving, giving people a heads up, what's called the heads up email. And then, when the product's actually live, you want to do a product launch or a product announcement, and then you want to do, basically, a product reminder. Most people just send one, if any at all; they just send the product here, right? And then people were like, Well, I didn't even know that you were selling anything new.

Jaryd Krause:

Yeah.

Chase Dimond:

They just saw something, and you want them to be excited. So you have to give them a heads up. You kind of have to be a little bit intriguing and mysteriously sketchy, right? And it could even be something simple. We've done really successful emails that were literally just plain text, like, Hey, so and so, I wanted to let you know we've got a really cool new product launching tomorrow. If you want to sign up for the wait list to be the first to know, click here. Or if you want to be the first to know, click here.

Like, we could even just do something super simple, just saying, Tomorrow at this time, one really cool thing we've done too is that there are certain sites out there that are free that allow you to create counterlinks that anyone can opt into. Anytime I've done product launches or even, you know, course launches, whatever it might be, event launches, we send an email saying, Hey, tomorrow at this time, this event is going to go on sale. And if there's a limited quantity or a specific discount, people will need and want to know, and they need that notification.

So we allow them to opt into a counter invite where it's going to remind you. So at 1PM PST, you have this product launch sale from this brand, or you can buy Chase's course, or you can buy this business, whatever it might be. And in that counter invite, they'll have the details of the link to the special offer, those types of things. So there are some really interesting things that you guys can leverage and get creative with.

Jaryd Krause:

So cool. And to come to think about the success of the sales, like thinking about it in my past campaigns and past work, like 80–20 of it is in the buildup, isn't it? The 80, 80% of the sales, um, come from the buildup, really. Or, the majority of the sales come from the buildup without it. Like, why would people do that?

Like you said before, it was like, Oh, cool. You just launched something, but why didn't you really tell me why you launched it? What's the story behind it? What's the reason? People aren't just like, Oh, buy a product just because it's there. The reason they buy something is because they have a really strong reason to. And you've got to build that for them.

Chase Dimond:

Yeah. And to add to that, like, I think part of the reason that like, uh, pre-orders or kind of like waitlist things work really, really well, um, before he launches, is because telling someone about something allows them to add their spin and their imagination to it, which is so powerful, right?

Like, you know, if one of my favorite brands is like, Hey, we're launching something really, really cool tomorrow and they'll give me kind of like a few teasers, you know, I'm obsessing for the next 24 hours. So at launches, do they just do a collab with so-and-so? Oh man, where are they going to drop? Right?

Also, by giving people a heads up and not giving them everything and not just giving it right away, You allow people to kind of obsess over it, think about it, and kind of marinate on it. And there, their mind kind of becomes like this grandiose thing. So it's almost like, however good it is, I'm sure it's going to be good in their mind if they have enough time to kind of resonate with it and sit with it when they get it. It might be that much better.

Jaryd Krause:

You know what they're doing? What I see these big brands do at the end of each email is do something that all good TV shows do. They have an open loop.

Chase Dimond:

Yes.

Jaryd Krause:

They have an open loop, and then we—that's what gets us to the next email, right? To close that loop. It's just such a good thing.

Chase Dimond:

So I think, you know, to summarize like what we've talked about today and maybe what we'll talk about if we keep going and kind of what is good marketing, it's really understanding like psychology and human behavior and like what's going to get people to read, what's going to get people to share, and what's going to get people to take action. And with great powers and great responsibility, obviously, you have to be respectful.

You can't abuse it, right? So I think it's so important to incorporate these things into your marketing. But don't take it so far; we're like, You're just getting people overly hooked and overly hit on dopamine without good reason. So I think there's something like this fine line of, You want to create this dopamine rush, and you want to get people to do these things, but be responsible and respectful.

Jaryd Krause:

Yeah, that's so good. Don't burn that bridge that you already built, right?

Chase Dimond:

Yeah.

Jaryd Krause:

Yeah, so good. Chase, this has been so fun. I thoroughly enjoyed your coming on to talk about email marketing. Where can we send people to check out more about what you're doing? Because of the results that you've been getting for people—you know, hundreds of millions of dollars just through email marketing for e-commerce businesses—people will be chomping at the bit to check out some more of your content or what you're up to.

Chase Dimond:

Yeah, so I think the best place would be Twitter. So my last name is Diamond without the A; it's D I M O N D. So Ecom Chase Diamond, no A in diamond. And then on there, I have like a link in my bio that links out to, like, my YouTube channel, my free newsletter, which has a lot of great content; you know, 99% of the stuff I put out is free.

I do have some paid courses, but for those who just want to get started and learn for free, I've got copywriting tips and tricks that I post every day on social media, and I've got a weekly newsletter that shares a bunch of stuff. So check out Twitter for free resources.

Jaryd Krause:

Awesome. Thank you so much. Guys, check it out. Those of you who are listening, Thank you for listening. If you are going to do some email marketing for your e-commerce business, rewatch this. It's like reading a book. When you come back to something again, you're going to pick up things that you missed the first time.

But also, if you know anybody else that needs email marketing for their e-commerce business, please do them a massive favor and share this podcast episode with them. It's going to help them, and it's also going to help us grow this podcast too. Thanks guys. See ya.